A Special Interview With Tyler LeBaron, MSc., Ph.D.
By Dr. Joseph Mercola
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Welcome, everyone. Dr. Mercola helping you take control of your health, and we’re delighted to
have Tyler LeBaron back with us again on his journey of continuing to learn more and more
about the amazing benefits of molecular hydrogen, and that’s a big difference. This is not
hydrogen. And I know I was confused about simple hydrogen because that’s a hydrogen ion. It’s
like a pH, it’s an acid, but this is different. That’s a hydrogen ion. We’re talking about molecular
hydrogen, which is two hydrogen atoms bound together, and the most common molecule and
smallest molecule in the universe and it has enormous biological benefits. And it is without a
doubt, my absolute unmitigated favorite for an antioxidant because it’s selective. It doesn’t non–
discriminately suppress free radicals, which can be highly beneficial. You want hit it with a
sledgehammer, you want hit it with a rifle, and it is using your body’s own intrinsic biological
systems and feedback to understand when you’re under this profound oxidative stress.
And then it can just activate these pathways, which we’re going into, Nrf2 and key proteins and
causes your DNA to make the antioxidants themselves because it’s not directly an antioxidant. A
lot of people are confused, they think like I was, and Tyler set me straight. It’s like you’re
thinking oh, the molecular hydrogen’s going to bind with the hydroxyl free radical and neutralize
it. Well, it happens, maybe, but that’s just such a minute component. It’s just, it helps you make
your own antioxidants. Dozens of them, maybe hundreds. So, with all that preface, because
you’re going to do most of the talking, I’m so glad you’re with us. Thank you for joining us.
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, thank you. My pleasure. I love talking about hydrogen, so it’s a great opportunity.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. So why don’t you first update us on your journeys because I know you are in the process
of getting your Ph.D. in molecular hydrogen, and how’s that going? Are you getting close?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, no, so I had finished, I finished last year–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay.
Tyler LeBaron:
–and very excited that I was able to be in the laboratory and do a lot of the research. I’ve been
studying this and looking at it since 2009–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah.
Tyler LeBaron:
–and that’s when I started my degree in biochemistry. And then I did a master’s degree in exercise
and sports conditioning and did a thesis on using molecular hydrogen. And then I transitioned
into doing a Ph.D. as well. And we did molecular hydrogen research, so yeah.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
So, did you do your thesis and you have your Ph.D. now?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Yep. It’s official.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
All right. Well, congratulations. I didn’t realize that.
Tyler LeBaron:
Okay. Yeah, thank you.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s fantastic. Dr. Tyler LeBaron.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s great. That’s really great. Well, I guess that’s a big update and why don’t you, well, give us
an update on things and I’ll just figure out where we can go.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, well, I wanted it mentioned, because this has come up recently, again, you said something
very important about molecular hydrogen that’s not just the normal hydrogen people think about
with the hydrogen ion, which is about pH and acid. But there’s another misunderstanding where
people are thinking that in order for something to act as an antioxidant, it has to be negatively
charged and then that’s going to neutralize a positive free radical or something. And that’s not
really what’s going on. And in fact, hydrogen, as you said, yeah, it is a neutral molecule and it’s
not donating its electron per se to neutralize the free radicals. It could scavenge radicals like the
hydroxyl radical, which then produces water. So, that’s a nice stoichiometry, but really, it’s
regulating our body’s own production of antioxidants and that’s what gives it a unique
antioxidant effect. And there’s some different things I’ve seen out there talking about hydrogen
that we should really be looking at H– or hydride because it has this extra electron.
Well, unfortunately that’s not even possible. A hydride is extremely reactive. And to put it in
perspective, in order to have a hydride, H– in water, you’d have to have a pH about 33 or so
because that’s based on the pKa, so to speak. I mean it’s not going to work. And then anyway, we
just want to, we’re focusing about molecular hydrogen. All the studies that are out there, there’s
over 2,000 studies now on hydrogen gas, molecular hydrogen. It’s all on molecular hydrogen, not
on H– or H or H+, or all of these things. So, it is on H2.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, good. And as we mentioned, I mentioned earlier, the primary method, at least as I
understand, certainly correct me if I’m wrong, is that it activates the Nrf2 pathway. And are there
any specific antioxidants that, endogenous antioxidants your body’s producing as a result of
exposure to this activation of the pathway, that are more profoundly or more generously
produced by your body than others? Like glutathione, that’s a primary one, or what is the
superoxide dismutase? Which catalyze? How many of them are there? How many of them are
identified at this point?
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, actually, if you look at the Nrf2, so it’s key point Nrf2 pathway. Maybe just to walk
through this a little bit for the audience. In your cell you have this protein, Nrf2, and it’s attached
to Keap1, and they’re always attached together. But when you get some oxidative stress or some
other stimulator molecule, basically it can cleave off. It causes the cleaving off of the Nrf2 and
the Keap2 and the Nrf2 can then diffuse into the nucleus and it binds to the ARE, or the
antioxidant response element of the DNA. And then the production basically of all these
endogenous antioxidants, it is the phase two, we call them the phase two enzymes of the
detoxification and antioxidation. There’s over 200 of these different [inaudible 00:06:09].
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
200? Wow.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yes. Yeah, it’s over 200 of them. So yeah, we typically talk about glutathione as a peptide, a
superoxide dismutase, catalase and glutathione peroxidase. But those are just the main ones we
talk about. But there’s a whole bunch of other ones, including heme oxygenase–1 that are
activated or can be activated by activation of the Nrf2 pathway.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s clearly, it seems to be one of its primary benefits. And its therapeutic uses are almost
mind–boggling. The number of diseases or indications or conditions, actually. Not diseases, can’t
say that. Conditions that it seems to benefit or help or support. So maybe you can highlight some
of the most important ones.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, well, okay, so two things when it comes to the different conditions, you’re right. Molecular
hydrogen has been shown to be therapeutic in using essentially over 170, probably closer to 200
different animal disease models. And what this means is, so for example, diabetes, there’s lots of
ways to induce diabetes in an animal model. Maybe 10 different ways, let‘s say. Well, each one
has a different – there’s different factors, different things about it. But using these different
models, we can show hydrogen has therapeutic effects. So, it is very powerful in all these ways.
And like you suggest, the Nrf2 in some cases seems to be extremely important. In fact, by using
gene knockout studies or microRNA like or interfering RNA, you can basically blunt the benefits
of molecular hydrogen in some specific studies. So, the Nrf2 is very important to be involved.
However, I think we should talk about maybe some advantages of H2 compared to other Nrf2
activators, like sulforaphane or–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, I was just going to say that, like from broccoli. I mean, and if you can compare the two
because that’s the tip, and most, there’s many other–
Tyler LeBaron:
Right.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
–phytonutrients that activate the Nrf2 and broccoli, sulforaphane being one of them, of course.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, exactly. And people typically want to say, if you have a graph and then this Nrf2 activator
is this much and this one is this much and this one is this much, and whichever one is the highest
is going to be the absolute best. That’s not really the right way to look at it. What we want is
optimal levels, and not only optimal levels in the body, we want optimal levels in the specific
cell. And so when we take something that’s powerful like sulforaphane or other molecules, some
of which are toxic, but many toxic molecules also activate the Nrf2 pathway. Well, in fact, that is
part of the, most of these molecules that do activate the Nrf2 pathway are slightly toxic. I mean
that’s the whole purpose of them, right?
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, tobacco smoke would be an example, wouldn’t it?
Tyler LeBaron:
The which one?
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Tobacco smoke.
Tyler LeBaron:
Oh, tobacco smoke. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can see upregulations of this as well. And so most
things that are, like these phytochemicals or these phytonutrients, they’re slightly toxic for the
body, but they end up inducing these favorable effects just like when we exercise. All this extra
breathing, all this oxygen, we’re producing more free radicals, but then in turn, this is going to
increase our body’s antioxidant status, for example, or increase mitochondrial biogenesis. So,
when it comes to hydrogen, molecular hydrogen and comparing this to other Nrf2 activators,
what we need to think about is some cells are already, they already have a redox homeostasis. In
other words, the amount of oxidative stress or free radical production is balanced. It’s a
homeostasis, not truly balanced, but it has the right amount of the oxidative process and reductor
process at the same time.
That’s the homeostasis that we need for optimal cellular health. And if molecular hydrogen were
to go to that cell, we see this in cell culture studies for example. When we administer molecular
hydrogen in a cell that’s already at redox homeostasis, we don’t see any increase in the Nrf2 or
other proteins or things like this. There’s nothing like that. And so that’s very important. We
might see things at the mRNA levels but not at the protein levels. Now that’s important because
we don’t want to have an issue of having a reductive stress, for example, because if you were to
just induce the Nrf2 pathway indiscriminately and just keep it going, that would be called
reductive stress and that would be problematic. In fact, there are genetic mutations where the
Nrf2 is hyperactivated and that leads to all sorts of problems. Cancer sometimes can activate the
Nrf2 really strongly and that can protect it and ensure its immortality.
And that leads to a whole bunch of problems. So, what we really are talking about is the
regulation of Nrf2. So, like I said, when we take molecular hydrogen, we administer it to healthy
cells, we don’t see changes in the Nrf2 level at the protein level. We might see it in the mRNA
level, for example. However, if we were to administer a toxin, say some pesticide or some plastic
or some other stress, hydrogen peroxide or something like this, that’s when we would see that
molecular hydrogen was able to induce the Nrf2 or many other proteins, not just the Nrf2, and
provide a protective effect. And that is so different than anything else out there. And when we
look at this, and it has this pre–treatment effect as well. So, if for example, in one study, the cell
culture study, they took and administered a molecular hydrogen, it was in cell culture, so it was
probably only there for like an hour or so in the cell culture.
And then after that, they administered a toxin, like a common environmental toxin, like a plastic–
type thing. And anyway, in this case there was the exposure caused a decrease in the antioxidant
status. So, you could see markers of increased oxidative stress, you could see decrease in
superoxide dismutase levels, all these important antioxidants, as well as a decrease in your
NAD+ (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide) to NADH (NAD + hydrogen) ratio, which I know
you’ve talked about a lot before. Having a high ratio is very important. And this stress caused this
reduction. However, in the cells that were pre–treated with molecular hydrogen, it prevented
those reductions from happening and it provided a protective effect for 24 hours even after the
hydrogen gas was out of the cell culture. So, there was no more molecular hydrogen left. And
that’s because molecular hydrogen works at this, basically the gene level epigenetically even,
modulating the proteins and the signaling pathways and the phosphorylation cascades so we can
have a protective effect for 24 hours.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That was an in vitro study you described, right? In the cell culture?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, this study. Exactly. In the cell culture in vitro. We can see other things in animal studies as
well, but this just helps hone in on that mechanism that we see. Number one, Nrf2 is very
important. Number two, we’re not just activating Nrf2, we’re regulating its production so it’s not
too high, not too low. And number three, we are able to provide a protective effect for say 24
hours in this case as opposed to only when it’s present. That’s very amazing to think that a
molecule like molecular hydrogen is able to change how the body, how the genes express
themselves so that it’s not going to, it’s going to have favorable effects even after it’s out of the
body.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, it’s pretty astounding actually, which is why I’m so fond of it. Why I think we should
review the administration, some of the things you alluded to in that there’s a paradox to the
dosing effect and that if you take too much of it, it’s actually highly counterproductive. So, I
want you to review that, the optimal dosing and the different types of dosing. And I want to
know if there’s any updates on comparing the tablets to the gas administration, which I know is
done in most of the research, maybe not most, but a significant amount of the research.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So, when it comes to overdosing, for most people you’re not going to
overdose molecular hydrogen that you’re able to, and that we’re aware of. Because when the
studies that are showing the overdosing idea, it’s actually that the hydrogen was administered to
the animals for 24/7. So, they were constantly–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Continuously.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yes, continuously exposed to molecular hydrogen and there was no spiking at all. So, in this
case, the cages of the animals, of the rats, they always had molecular hydrogen, 2% hydrogen
gas, always there. And interestingly, initially there was a protective benefit. You could see
changes in biomarkers, you could see benefits.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Like the first day or so?
Tyler LeBaron:
I think it was a little bit longer actually, maybe like the first few days or a week or so.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay.
Tyler LeBaron:
But then it seemed to kind of decrease after that. But when you administer molecular hydrogen
intermittently, that’s when it was more effective.
And so that’s the idea of having an intermittent exposure. So, it’s probably not possible for
somebody to take too much, you know, drink too much hydrogen water or inhale molecular
hydrogen for too much. I mean, some of the studies people are inhaling hydrogen for 6 to 8, or
even 12 hours a day, for example. We see therapeutic effects in this way. So, a lot of molecular
hydrogen, but not this 24/7 exposure. That seems to be what the problem is. So, in terms of the
optimal dose then, it’s like drinking hydrogen water, one thing that we have to keep in mind then
is what is the dose that is required in order to induce these favorable changes? If we go back to a
cell culture, we need to add so much hydrogen molecules, so many hydrogen molecules into the
cell culture, they have to interact in the cell in order for that to activate these pathways.
And that concentration, the threshold might be around 8, just say 10 micromolar, okay? So, you
have to get that concentration in your cells. So, if you were to drink say 8 ounces or 250
milliliter–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
16.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, hydrogen water or something, well that’s going to have a certain, depending on the
concentration, that’s then going to be diluted by the rest of your body. And that concentrations
going to go down and hopefully it’s going to be at least 10 micromolar or higher. We see some
dose–dependent effects from say 10 micromolar all the way to 800 micromolar, which is
considered saturation. So, there doesn’t appear to be any problem with having super–high doses
of hydrogen as long as they’re intermittent in this way. But we want to make sure we get that
minimum level. So, there are probably wrong ways to take hydrogen. And one of them then
would be if you have your hydrogen water and if you just take a few sips and sit it down and
then a few minutes later, a few more sips, well, you’re going to take that, that hydrogen is going
to be – the concentration will be reduced by all the fluids in the body. So, the concentration may
never reach that, say 10 micromolar level.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, the other factor, too, is that the only reason you’re able to typically get really high
concentrations in the hydrogen water is that these nano–bubbles that are created by the tablet
technology. And if you wait, if you keep on sipping it, those nano–bubbles are going to burst, and
there’s not going to be virtually any hydrogen gas, molecular hydrogen in that water.
Tyler LeBaron:
Okay. Yeah, that’s another really good point. It’s a little bit separate on this because even in this
case we’re just talking about if you have hydrogen water that’s fully dissolved, that’s not nano–
bubbles. If you’re just sipping it, then you’re not going to get that concentration of hydrogen
because when you drink the hydrogen, pretty much all the hydrogen molecules are going to be
expelled out of the body via exhalation, most of it, within 60 minutes or so. So, if you’re kind of
sipping it all day, then you’re not getting a high enough spike to induce those cell–signaling
changes.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
And is it homogenously diffused through the body too, or is it more of a gradient, whereas if
you’re swallowing it orally, there’s a difference between inhaling it and its ability to penetrate all
the different cellular compartments?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yes, so it does, because hydrogen is the smallest molecule, it is going to be able to permeate all
the cell biomembranes and everything very easily. However, it will follow its concentration
gradient. And so, it’s going to, when you drink, it’ll go to the stomach and then to the intestines
and then onto the liver and then to the systemic circulation and through Brownian motion and
this diffusion gradient, it’ll be a passive diffusion, simple diffusion, go into the cells where it’s
going to induce those effects. So, going back to then, what’s your point about in your case with
tablets, because you’re choosing to use that, absolutely. The concentration of the hydrogen in the
tablets is not just in dissolved form, but it’s in this quasi–suspended, micro–, macro nano–bubble
form that has a lot of hydrogen density, so to speak, in the water. So, it’s not going to be as
stable. So absolutely in that case, you’ve got to drink it very, very quickly while it’s still cloudy
and everything. Otherwise, like you said, you’re going to lose a high percentage of that.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. So, how does that compare? Because I think the percentage is 5 to 9 parts per million
depending on the tablets and such? But the therapeutic dose of regular hydrogen water is like 0.5
parts per million.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Okay. So, first on a term, just on a technical term, it is much better that we use instead of
PPM, parts per million, we say milligram per liter–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay.
Tyler LeBaron:
–which in this case is pretty much the same. So, 5 PPM is equivalent to 5 milligrams per liter
because PPM can mean weight per weight or volume per volume or mole per mole or all these
things, so–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, chemists would have to make that distinction for sure.
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, it gets confusing because often we talk about like hydrogen inhalation people then talk
about 20,000 PPM, and then it’s like really, because what is that, like 20,000 PPM, how does that
equate to 5 PPM or something, right?
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Right, right, right.
Tyler LeBaron:
One’s percentage. The other one is a weight per weight ratio, so milligrams per liter. Yeah, you’re
right. So saturation, what we call saturation is if you were at sea level and you were to put a glass
of water in an atmosphere of 100% hydrogen gas, then that gas would dissolve into the water and
it would reach an equilibrium. The concentration it would reach would be 1.6, 1.57 more
specific, milligrams per liter. That’s called saturation with that. And so most of the hydrogen
water that’s available on the markets are going to be at best that high. But most, a lot of them, as
you said about 0.5 milligram per liter, a lot of them are only hitting that level, which according to
clinical studies right now, the evidence would suggest that you really need to be drinking at least
that concentration in order to ensure you’re going to elicit the therapeutic effect that you want in
the first place.
So, unfortunately, some hydrogen products are not even reaching that threshold. But with the
tablets like what you’re talking about, because you are having so much that’s dissolved and a lot
of that are in the suspended or quasi form, then you have a very high volume of molecular
hydrogen, which requires you to drink it faster, but you can get these higher doses of molecular
hydrogen. So, one thing I should probably mention is when it comes to looking at hydrogen
products, it’s important to, one of the considerations is if it has been certified according to IHSA,
and I know your tablets have gone through that process, so that we know for example, that it’s
really making this much molecular hydrogen. The IHSA is the International Hydrogen Standards
Association, which is a group of international researchers that have come to, basically, give a
definition of hydrogen water, look at all the available literature and to see what is the minimal
dose, which we talked about, 0.5 milligrams per liter concentration and then also how to measure
molecular hydrogen because a lot of times people will try to use ORP (oxidation reduction
potential) meters or different things.
We published a paper showing how it is very inaccurate and especially if the pH is anything but
neutral. So, the tablets, you might measure something like, I don’t know, 0.5 milligrams per liter
when really, it’s 5 milligrams per liter because of the issue in the pH. So, we really can’t use the
ORP–type meters or other methods. It has to be gas chromatography. And IHSA uses the gold
standard, gas chromatography and then does a series of testing for safety and purity and a
number of different things in order to be classified as a product that could be recommended and
used in clinical studies.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
So, many indications, one of my favorites is when I travel on a plane, because you typically fly
at about 35,000 feet, and for those who don’t know, that’s about 7 miles up, close, maybe 6 or 7
miles, and that’s pretty high. That’s much higher than Mount Everest. So, the protection of the
atmosphere is gone and the result there’s ionizing radiation from space that come through like
gamma rays, so that can really do havoc on your cellular structure. So, I think it’s really
important to do, take molecular hydrogen. And I think the base strategy is that just like you said,
you cannot take this in continuously. This is not something you want to take through 3, 4, 5
times a day. You want to take it once a day, maybe twice a day unless you’re traveling. So, my
approach that I’ve evolved to is to take it before I take off because the results, it takes a while,
maybe an hour, and you can speak to this for those ARE enzymes to be activated, or antioxidants
response elements in the DNA to be activated and start producing these endogenous antioxidants.
So, you want to have it before the exposure. And then like I take it every hour when I’m in the
air, just a tablet and put it in water. I learned this from you too. You want to, ideally the best
amount is 16 ounces of water. That’s a big chunk. You’re going to get a significant benefit if you
put it in 8 ounces of water, but it should not be cold because it’s going to take a lot longer to
dissolve that tablet. And then you got to be holding this, looking at the cup to see if the tablet is
floating to the surface yet, which normally takes a minute and a half at room temperature. It
could take 3, 4, 5 minutes, depending on how cold the water is, if you get ice cubes. And not to
use sparkling water because the carbon dioxide in that will inhibit the, or lessen the concentration
of hydrogen gas that you can have in the water.
So, that’s my take on it. And I just learned recently, I don’t know how I missed this, but we
actually sell these tablets in little Alka Seltzer foil tablet packs. Just makes it ultra–convenient to
travel with them. You just take it out of your pocket, rip it open, it’s totally fresh because one of
the problems with these tablets is that they’re very hydroscopic, which means they attract water
really easily, and when they are exposed to water before you use them, the benefit is going to be
diminished. So, you want to keep them as pristine as possible until you use them. So those
packets let you do that.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, just a couple of thoughts. Okay, first off, I think it’s probably okay if
somebody wanted to take molecular hydrogen three or four times a day. The issue would be
when you’re taking them, so I would say, because we just talked about the pharmacokinetics a
little bit, that it takes about an hour for all the hydrogen gas to leave. Maybe it’s better, this is just
a maybe, we actually have no research on this is just–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
You would know.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, this is just my idea on this, okay? So, because we believe it’s important to have this
spiking effect, then maybe it makes sense that if you’re going to have hydrogen water, you would
actually not want to have it for say, you know, you want to have at least an hour break basically.
That way you go back to baseline, the hydrogen level goes back to baseline so you can spike it
again, okay? So that means unless you’re, I don’t know, you’re trying to restrict water intake or
something, but you could feasibly take several, quite a number of times throughout the day–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay.
Tyler LeBaron:
–as long as you’re having maybe, and maybe you should try to say three–hour spaces in between
or something like. Now it may–
Okay. At least twice a day. So that actually gets good support for the protocol I advise, which is
every hour while you’re flying. That would make sense.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yes, yes, you could do it that way, but maybe you could argue, “Well, but is an hour enough for
it to go, for everything to be [crosstalk 00:28:21]”
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Too low, okay.
Tyler LeBaron:
Right. So, you could wait a little longer. Now, it’s not actually so important that you take it right
before something because the activity, the benefits of molecular hydrogen occur not necessarily
when the hydrogen molecule is in the cell at that time. That study I talked about earlier, you had
all these therapeutic cytoprotective benefits long after the hydrogen was already dissipated. So,
it’s like as long as you’ve been taking hydrogen, and I would say based upon the animal studies,
for about three days, then that three–day pre–treatment is going to make it so by the time you get
exposed to the radiation–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Oh, that’s brilliant, yeah.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Then you’re already going to have that level of protection. Now, I don’t think that if you
took the hydrogen every hour or every say 30 minutes that you’re going to negate the benefits. I
don’t think that actually would happen because you’re still getting spikes, even though you’re not
going all the way back to baseline. So, there’s probably not necessarily a wrong way to do it, but
there might be some ways to optimize it or make it better. And I would just say make sure you’re
taking the hydrogen water, say a couple days before you’re going to get on, be exposed to
something and then of course before and then, yeah, you can do it after, also. But I tend to
believe that a pre–treatment of molecular hydrogen is going to be more effective than a post–
treatment, for example.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay, so depending on your circumstances, if you’re convinced of this and you’re taking
molecular hydrogen a day every day, fine, it’s probably closer to ideal. If you’re not and you’re
trying to conserve and just take it for incidence of high oxidative stress, flying would be one, x–
ray exposure would be another, especially CAT scan, which is like 200 times more intense than a
regular chest x–ray, then you want to take it for at least three days, at least three days before the
exposure so your cells are sort of saturated and primed or ready. It’s like they have to, they’re
warmed up and ready to make what they need to. So, does that summarize what you were just
saying?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. It’s probably good recommendations of course that these things might,
may change as we understand more the clinical evidence. In the cell culture studies, I would say
that we need at least a half an hour or so. If you just look at the expression of G–protein coupled
receptors, change from gene expression and then you make the mRNA and then you go to the
ribosomes, make the proteins, all this stuff takes time. And so around a half an hour may be how
much time is needed to start exerting some effects, right? So, 30 minutes pre–treatment before
something might be important consideration. But again, you don’t necessarily have to have a pre–
treatment. Simultaneous treatment still can be effective. Radiation isn’t something we test a lot.
In fact, in my Ph.D., we used a lot of irradiation of the myocardium, for example, and I looked at
the protective effects of hydrogen water.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
What type of radiation did you use?
Tyler LeBaron:
Gamma radiation.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Gamma radiation, yeah, that’s the type you get up at 35,000 feet. Not typically at sea level, but it
is a very potent ionizing stress. There’s no question. Probably one of the toughest. And I think
that’s the one from nuclear fallout too, if I’m not mistaken, isn’t it?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because if you’re having a particle decay and alpha–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, yeah.
Tyler LeBaron:
–we have look at that, but there’s a number of forms and they can all be toxic. In fact, non–
ionizing radiation can be [crosstalk 00:32:01]–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Absolutely.
Tyler LeBaron:
So, it’s very interesting when we look at some of the nuances and then the biological systems.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
I wrote a whole book on that. It’s called “EMF*D.”
Tyler LeBaron:
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
And interesting, because we think, I mean it speculated, there’s a lot of theories on it. I don’t
think any of it’s proven yet. But one of the current popular theories advanced by Martin Blank,
Ph.D. – not Martin Blake. Martin Pall, Ph.D, sorry. Martin Blank, Ph.D., is another EMF
researcher. He recently passed. But Martin Pall, Ph.D. was at this, actually the exposure to the
non–ionizing EMFs causes calcium to go extracellular, intracellular, which causes an increase or
an influx of – the calcium influx causes an increase in superoxide and–
Tyler LeBaron:
The nitric oxide.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Nitric oxide. And you form peroxynitrite, which is actually a pretty pernicious molecule because
it lasts about a thousand times longer than the hydroxyl free radical. So, I think, collectively, it
may be more pernicious than hydroxyl, certainly not as acutely damaging as hydroxyl, but long
term, I think. It can travel between cells. I mean, hydroxyl can only travel a very small distance,
like not even the length of a protein. It’s got a billionth of a second half life.
Tyler LeBaron:
Right. Yeah, the peroxynitrite is absolutely one of the most pernicious molecules. And you’re
right because it can be protonated too and not from nitrous but peroxynitrous acid, and then it’s
going to make it build a diffuse easier as well. And one of the decompositions of it is it can
create hydroxyl radicals, also. So, it really is something very toxic. And so, I think that’s a really
good segue though, into how molecular hydrogen might help with the peroxynitrite model.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely want you to do it because it’s my supposition, ideally, it’s like this in
any biology, is the best approach is prevention. So, minimize your exposure. But for whatever
reason, there are so many people who just for whatever reason, are unable to limit their exposure.
There’s a lot of good reasons for it, but that’s not the best. The best is to limit it. But if you can’t,
then you may want to consider taking molecular hydrogen on a long–term basis because it’s
going to help your body increase endogenous antioxidants to minimize the damage from
peroxynitrite and other oxidative stressors. So, tell us how it works with peroxynitrite.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Okay. So, one of the first studies, actually the Nature Medicine publication back in 2007–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Oh yeah, the 2007, 2007, right?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Well, in addition to showing how hydrogen could act as a therapeutic antioxidant, one of
the things that it found in addition to its ability to reduce the hydroxyl radicals, was also its
ability to reduce peroxynitrite. So, there’s one way right there, how molecular hydrogen can help
is we see a reduction of the peroxynitrite levels, and we also see reductions like in animals and
tissue samples of nitrotyrosine levels, which is a marker of the peroxynitrite as well. Now, you
mentioned earlier that for example, if you get the calcium signals and that can induce nitric oxide
and activate various NOx enzymes to increase superoxide production, and then you have
superoxide and nitric oxide, and they react instantaneously. I mean, they’ll–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Much faster than superoxide dismutation. No comparison. Or is the magnitude faster?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. They are, yeah. The only thing that limits how fast they react is the rate of diffusion,
basically. And superoxide dismutase is a very fast [enzyme], one of the faster enzymes. So, you
can imagine this, essentially it means that if they come in contact with each other, they will form
peroxynitrite. So, what we need to do then is, you mentioned this idea of prevention. Well, if we
could somehow decrease this excessive production of superoxide or an excessive production of
nitric oxide, then we could essentially prevent peroxynitrite formation. And that’s exactly what
molecular hydrogen does. And this is really fascinating because if you took other antioxidants
and you put them in the presence of, say, nitric oxide or superoxide, you could also scavenge,
you could reduce these, you could scavenge them. You could donate your electron and then
neutralize these, basically.
Well, that can be good, but can also be bad because our body makes and specifically uses things
like superoxide to increase mitochondrial biogenesis or nitric oxide, of course, for vasodilation. I
think that’s one of the most important molecules that there is for our immune system for every,
all so many parts and functions of our organs and cells. So, we don’t want to just neutralize all of
these. Well, again, hydrogen being selective, if you put molecular hydrogen in the presence of
superoxide or nitric oxide, there would not be a reaction. They don’t have the strong enough
oxidizing power for hydrogen to react with these molecules.
And so, we don’t have to worry about that happening. But then the question is then how does
hydrogen help with the superoxide and the nitric oxide when their levels are in excess
production? And that goes to this signal modulating effects. So, as I mentioned with superoxide,
typically that’s from this NDPH oxidase or NOX enzymes that can become super hyperactivated.
And molecular hydrogen has this ability to essentially down–regulate this NOx enzyme. And so,
you end up producing less superoxide in the first place. So, if you have less superoxide, then
you’re going to make less peroxynitrite. And then on the other side, when you have nitric oxide
production, you have three main isozymes or enzymes. You have the neuronal nitric oxide
synthase, endothelial nitric oxide synthase, and the inducible nitric oxide synthase. And eNOS
(endothelial NOS), of course, that’s in the endothelial cells. So typically, that’s good. You want
more of that, you kind of lose that as you get older. Incidentally enough, side note, molecular
hydrogen can actually improve eNOS.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Oh, that’s great.
Tyler LeBaron:
So we actually can have better blood perfusion and things in this way. But there’s the iNOS
(inducible nitric oxide synthase) specifically from macrophages can be problematic. And
hydrogen has this ability to downregulate the activity of iNOS, of making this excessive nitric
oxide production. So now you’re decreasing superoxide and nitric oxide levels, and consequently
you get less peroxynitrite.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s great. That was really, really helpful. Thank you for sharing that. And that’s what we
believe is one of the primary mechanisms of how non–ionizing radiation works. But then we’ve
got ionizing radiation, and you have biological free radical production. And from my
understanding, and as one of the most pernicious sources of biological free radical production is
an excess of omega–6 fats, specifically linoleic acid. And so that’s the substrate for it. And it’s
interesting, I was listening to a podcast where they reviewed the data on this, and they found that
even for ionizing radiation, that the animals that had much lower tissue levels of linoleic acid had
far less damage than the animals that had higher levels when exposed to equal amounts of
ionizing radiation. So, even though they didn’t do the study for non–iodizing radiation, it just
made perfect sense that lower linoleic acid levels are going to produce less free radicals with
when you’re exposed to these oxidative stressors.
So, that I’ve become less, I mean, I’ve been in a course for the last three, four, maybe five years
of lowering my linoleic acid levels. So, they’re finally getting down to low levels. So, if you can
get those seed oils out of your diet in every way, shape or form, especially in processed foods
and restaurant foods, then you’re not going to have a lot in your tissues. And when you’re
exposed to these oxidative stressors, you’re not going to generate those free radicals, which
ultimately cause the damage. So that’s another way that you can preventively, but especially
when you’re using molecular hydrogen, that’s like a massively effective one–two punch.
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, and this lipid peroxidation that’s going to occur with the omega–6 fatty acids, all these
omega–6 fatty acids, I mean, they are polyunsaturated fatty acids. They have double bonds, so
they have areas where they can actually be oxidized.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Oxidized, yeah.
Tyler LeBaron:
And so that’s just a fundamental property of them. And then that can induce this propagation
cascade causing more and more. And then when you start destroying the cell membrane, that
cascade’s going to enter into the, down into the–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Mitochondria, the nucleus
Exactly, yeah. Down to the mitochondria nucleus, and then you know, then you start causing
release of Cytochrome c, for example, which induces apoptosis, you know, cell suicide, and so
on. So, molecular hydrogen, it’s also lipid–soluble, so more lipid–soluble than it is water–soluble.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Really? I did not know that. I thought it was just neutral and didn’t have a preference.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, it has a tendency of wanting to be more lipid–soluble. So, it’s several times, at least three
times more soluble in lipids, for example, than it would be in water. And so, you’ll actually have
more molecular hydrogen in the lipid membrane. And there was a study done by [Shigeo] Ohta,
Ph.D., who I’ve done an interview before. He’s one of our MHI advisors, but his study–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s Molecular Hydrogen Institute for which you founded.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, yeah. MolecularHydrogenInstitute.org. Yeah, but anyway, in his study, and it’s very
interesting, but this was an in vitro cell–free study basically taking basically a cell membrane–
type idea and administering a small percent of molecular hydrogen so it could equate to what it is
physiologically. And when you don’t have the hydrogen present, then you get this autooxidation.
Okay, that’s just oxygen comes, it causes oxidation. You get this propagation. What ends up
happening is you form these byproducts, lipid peroxide byproducts, like 4–hydroxynonenal. And
then this sequesters various other complexes, which prevents activation of AKT, different protein
kinases, and then eventually that can cause problems, okay? Because you’re suppressing these
activities. Now, when you administered molecular hydrogen, there was less production of these
lipid peroxide end products. And consequently, there’s less of the inhibition of these molecules.
So, these molecules, these protein kinases for example, they in turn end up activating things like
PGC–1 alpha, which is stimulus for mitochondrial biogenesis, then eventually fibroblast growth
factor 21, which is a hepatic hormone, which is important for energy expenditure and weight
loss. And so, like caloric restriction and some of these benefits come in with molecular
hydrogen. And it all came from molecular hydrogen protecting the cell membrane, basically,
from this autooxidation.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s tremendous. I didn’t realize it was so beneficial for that, but it makes perfect sense. It just
never occurred to me. That would be another useful strategy. So, as long as we’re expanding on
this, but those were two really, profoundly important fundamental biological challenges because
with oxidation, because why is it so important? Because so many experts now believe that one of
the ways that aging is accelerated is through oxidative stress. So, we really need to have a good
handle on this, and you got to be careful and you just can’t be, well, you could, but we don’t
recommend indiscriminately swallowing these antioxidants. It’s so far superior to allow your
body to do it in its own wisdom and based on the feedback it has from the environment with
oxidative stressors.
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, there’s data also that taking these high doses of synthetic antioxidants, they actually
increase mortality. I mean, you end up dying faster. These are the early studies. Like they found
that smokers, for example, who ate more carrots or something, they’re like, hey, they’re living
longer. So, they were recommending, “Hey smokers, you should make sure you get a lot of
vitamin A and beta–carotene.” Then they’re like, “Hey, we should do a study on this to actually
make sure that these recommendations are sound.” And they were taking different studies and
sometimes high doses, you can call them synthetic. It doesn’t really matter. The point is these are
reducing agents, reducing molecules that have the ability to neutralize free radicals. And they
had to stop the studies because people who were taking the antioxidants were dying and getting
cancer faster than those on the placebo. And in fact, the recommendation is like, “Be careful
about taking these, especially if you smoke.”
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, there you go. So, it exactly perfectly illustrates what I just said. That’s great. So yeah, it
occurred to me too, there’s another area that I became recently aware of, of reductive stress,
which is an interesting concept because most people don’t know about it, but it’s when you have
an excess of these omega–6 fats and specifically linoleic acid that it perturbs the electron
transport chain. So, you get backward flow and it actually increases reductive stress, which is a
challenge.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, so there’s probably two different ways of looking at a reductive
stress in this case. So yeah, when you’re looking at the mitochondria, so the university that I
teach, of course, bioenergetics, is an exercise nutrition for my master’s class students that I’m
teaching. And we kind of go through some of these pathways in detail. But yeah, if your
mitochondria are not functioning correctly, then if you get backup with electron transport chain,
then what happens is yes, those electrons, instead of going to oxygen as a final electron acceptor
to form water, you end up donating it to oxygen prematurely or other molecules, and that causes
more free radicals and can be problematic in this case. And then the poor–functioning
mitochondria, if you’re not able to regenerate your NAD+ levels because that’s so important for
our overall health, then you end up having more and more of NADH, and this leads to more and
more of your NADPH, because you have NADP and NADPH, and NAD+.
Anyway, you can start having this type of reductive stress. It can be problematic from a
metabolic perspective. But then there’s this other idea of a reductive stress in terms of having too
many, like I mentioned earlier, this upregulation of the Nrf2 pathway, for example, like happens
with cancer or some genetic issues. We’re just taking high levels of antioxidants. That’s a
reductive stress. And so, you’re absolutely right, with aging and diseases, it’s not so much an
oxidative stress. We focus on that, but it’s really a dysregulation, it’s a redox dysregulation. And
in fact, we’ve seen in some of these aging cells, you can have a dysregulation of redox within the
exact same cells. So, for example, in the one compartment we’ll say that the ribosomes, which is
responsible for folding proteins, and so you need to have some oxidative power in order to fold
proteins correctly.
But as cells get older, they may lose that ability. And if you don’t fold your proteins correctly,then they’re not going to function correctly because the function of a protein, the structure of the
protein dictates its function. So, this is one problem. And then in the same cell in the cytosol,
let’s say, you can have too much of an oxidative stress going on. So, you have reductive stress
going on in the ER, endoplasmic reticulum, and an oxidative stress going on in the cytosol. And
different compartments can be, all have different issues going on. And so again, just taking an
antioxidant or taking just sulforaphane or just taking whatever, that might help one compartment,
but it might exacerbate the other. So, what we really want is a regulator, a redox regulator, and
that’s kind of like what molecular hydrogen seems to do.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
It is what it is. That’s a perfect description of it.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Adaptogenic redox regulator, basically.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Is that a term you came up with, adaptogenic redox regulator?
Tyler LeBaron:
I did actually. I published a paper, yeah, I called it a “mitocore–medic redox adaptogenic
regulator.”
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
I love it. That’s great. That’s great. You coined a new term in scientific jargon. Congratulations.
So, one of the other things I admire about you is commitment and passion about exercise, that
passion we both share. You’re significantly better at implementing it than I’ve been. You won the
state championship in Utah for wrestling when you were in high school, I believe. And ran a sub
2:30 marathon and you dead lifted over 500 pounds. So you’re an extraordinary physical
specimen. So, I’m wondering if you could maybe touch on the use of molecular hydrogen for
exercise, exercise performance and some of the benefits there.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, so again, we actually published a paper on this in the Canadian Journal of Physiology or
Pharmacology a few years ago. But the studies are, there are quite a number of them showing
that we can have improvements in say, our endurance levels or, well, I kind of want to go
through some of these a little bit. I was just reminded there was just an article published as well,
a systematic review, meta–analysis on the benefits of hydrogen for exercise. And it was just
recently published this year actually. And again, meta–analysis are some of the strongest
evidence that science has to offer, and it shows its favorable effect.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
If the articles it’s evaluating are valid, because they used that to totally screw with us in the
COVID narrative. And they picked the wrong studies to do meta–analysis with.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, that’s one of the problems with meta–analysis in general is typically it’s only valid if we
know the authors have a level of expertise in this area. But, okay, so some of the benefits with
hydrogen for with exercise, for example, so first it seems to be if it’s going to help you, it’s
probably going to help you as you push yourself harder. So the further away you are from
homeostasis, the more you’re likely to see an effect in terms of helping the perceived exertion or
helping with your blood flow, for example, or helping to reduce fatigue. And so, some of the
studies, like one of earliest ones, found ability to prevent fatigue during a maximal isokinetic
knee extension exercise. So, in this study, basically isokinetic just means same speed, and so
you’re on a machine and you’re just doing these leg extensions. You have to do, I think they did
50 of them in a row, and you just do as hard as you can.
And then the group that took molecular hydrogen was able to maintain a higher force output
during those 50 maximal isokinetic knee extensions. And then also they looked at exercising at
around 70% your VO2 max, which is about close 70% of your max heart rate. And those who
were doing this, they were able to exercise longer, like a longer time to exhaustion, for example,
but also had lower levels of lactate. So, lactate, there’s a lot of misunderstanding about lactate.
We’ve heard lactic acid causes the burn or something. None of that is true. Yeah, lactic acid is,
actually lactic acid itself is not even produced in the body. The only lactate, the molecule lactate
is, in fact, I have one of my exercise phys textbooks, it still has lactic acid in there, and it says
that lactic acid is made and then it disassociates into lactate and the hydrogen ion, which again,
it’s not true. In fact–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Tell us, I thought it was at the pyruvate metabolism.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. So what happens is yeah, pyruvate is the end of the–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Glycolysis.
Tyler LeBaron:
Glucose and you make pyruvate. What happens is lactate dehydrogenase, the enzyme, then takes
pyruvate and adds two electrons and a hydrogen ion, which is the acid, adds a hydrogen ion to
the pyruvate, and that forms lactate. So, the molecule lactic acid is never produced. Okay, but I
don’t want to go too far in the weeds. I’ll go really off on a topic, but I want to talk about this
lactate just real quick. The reason why we produce lactate is because pyruvate, normally, will go
to the mitochondria, to this PDH (pyruvate dehydrogenase complex) complex and it’s oxidized
into a acetyl–CoA. It goes, anyway, then you go end up making a bunch of ATP or energy in the
mitochondria with using oxygen.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Right, aerobic respiration.
Tyler LeBaron:
Exactly right. Okay. So, if your mitochondria are unable to keep up with the demand, with the
ATP demand of the amount of exercise, so it’s not able to make enough ATP using the
mitochondria, using this pathway because maybe you don’t have enough mitochondria, maybe
you’re not getting enough oxygen there, it’s just taking too long. And so–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yes, or the exercise is too hard.
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, or you’re exercising too hard, but that’s because your body’s got to get better, right?
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, yeah.
Tyler LeBaron:
So, what happens then is you start producing lactate. So, lactate is this byproduct. So, because
the production of lactate is what allows you to continue exercising, it’s what allows you to
continue going at that high intensity and you can make lactate instead of having a build–up of
pyruvate. It’s actually a build–up of NADH, which is the issue. Okay. Now in the study then,
when they found that you have a reduction of lactate, what that means is that, well, okay, one
interpretation is that the molecular hydrogen may have improved the function of the
mitochondria. And we see this in other studies where we actually see increased energy
production, so increased ATP production in the mitochondria. Now, if we’re getting our ATP
production from the mitochondria using the aerobic respiration, then we don’t have to go through
the anaerobic pathway of making lactate. So, that’s kind of the important area of why we’re
seeing lactate decrease is because we’re able to use the mitochondria to make ATP and now we
can exercise better, longer and have less fatigue, especially the perceived exertion in our brains
as well. And then there’s also maybe other explanations in terms of lactate clearance and
accelerating the Cori cycle and different things. But the mitochondrial bioenergetics are probably
a major target of molecular hydrogen.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Excellent. Well, thank you for expanding on that. So, mucho benefits when you are exercising.
It’s a really good idea if you want to optimize and maximize your investment in time and effort
and energy. If you’re going to put in the work, you may as well optimize it with some molecular
hydrogen.
Tyler LeBaron:
And as protective, because as we said, when you exercise, you do breathe a lot more and that’s
going to make more free radicals. And a lot of those free radicals are going to be very good for
your body because it’s going to force you to make more antioxidants, it’s going to increase
mitochondrial bioenergetics and all this stuff, but you’re still causing damage. You’re still
damaging DNA, you’re still doing things. So molecular hydrogen, the idea here is that you can
negate or reduce the damaging effects of exercise while not inhibiting the benefits of exercise,
and in fact, maybe even potentiating the benefits of exercises.
So, this is one of the ideas that hydrogen in some ways can act as an exercise mimetic not in the
true sense, maybe a pseudo–mimetic because it can activate some of the same pathways, some of
the same metabolic pathways that exercise does. And in this case, it can maybe really potentiate
those benefits of exercise. Then again, to compare that to conventional antioxidants, especi ally in
animal studies we see this, that taking high dose of antioxidants can negate the benefits of
exercise training. So normally with exercise, you have improved insulin sensitivity, your glucose
levels go down, you know, have better antioxidant status. Taking high levels of synthetic
antioxidants can completely negate those benefits of exercise. So again, hydrogen is superior
because it doesn’t do that.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Does it obliterate the external antioxidants as you would swallow? Is it somewhat similar
mechanisms as cold–water immersion or cold thermogenesis?
Tyler LeBaron:
Well, I guess the end result would be the same, but conventional antioxidants and–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Different mechanism.
Tyler LeBaron:
–cold immersion, yeah, different mechanism. But there of course is going to be some interplay
because free radicals are always at play. But there’s also things like the chaperone proteins, the
heat–shock proteins–
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Sure.
Tyler LeBaron:
–and different things that are in clearing of like calcium, inorganic phosphate and things in the
muscle.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
I love heat shock proteins. Most of my heavy workouts are followed by near infrared sauna. I get
up to like 180 [degrees Fahrenheit] or so, and my body temperature is like 102 for only 20
minutes. And that’s one of the, I love activating heat–shock proteins because as you mentioned
earlier, those protein unfolding is a huge problem. If your proteins, you can have a protein, but if
it’s misfolded, it’s not going to work.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah. Well, and molecular hydrogen also induces the heat–shock protein response.
Oh, I didn’t know that.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, so some of some of my colleagues in Japan, they did several studies. We actually
published one recently, but we’ve see the – yes, molecular hydrogen is able to indeed deduce
mtUPR, the mitochondrial unfold approaching response, and then this is important because then
this could result later in rejuvenation of the mitochondria, for example. So, there’s lots of heat
shock proteins, but hydrogen is involved in this, and then it induces later in upregulation of
collagen biosynthesis as well as some of these same pathways.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
That’s terrific. That’s great. So, I was thinking as we were elucidating the mechanism with the
omega–6 fat, linoleic acid, which I view as probably one of the most pernicious contributors to
chronic degenerative diseases. So, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity. And it’s not because
it’s a direct toxin by itself, but as you mentioned earlier, it’s the byproducts, the ALEs, that’s
referred to advanced lipoxidation end products, which is similar to AGEs from carbohydrates,
advanced glycation end products. But these ALEs or even oxidants, more specifically oxidative
linoleic acid metabolites, the metabolites, and there’s hundreds of them, 4–HNE is just one, but
there’s hundreds of them that contribute to – they’re independent free radicals that damage the
cell tissue. So, if you can lower those, that production of those three radicals to begin with,
you’re probably radically contributing to almost every chronic degenerative disease.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, that’s why we can explain that molecular hydrogen can have such a wide, diverse benefit
in so many different disease models because essentially all of them have this root cause of an
excessive amount of oxidative stress or redox dysregulation we talked about, or this
inflammation. And hydrogen [being] able to regulate these pathways is going to help with the
root cause as opposed to a certain drug that’s going to target a very specific receptor, go into this
specific organ that’s going to one target, one organ and one effects–type idea and that’s just not
how molecular hydrogen works. It’s able to work on the oxidative pathways, on the
mitochondria, on autophagy. I mean there’s so many areas where molecular hydrogen works and
so it makes sense that it should be able to help with so many different conditions.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yes, indeed. Well, I love it. As I said earlier, it’s my favorite antioxidant because it’s selective.
It’s not like any other antioxidant and really, is really one of my absolute favorite supplements
and I embrace widely. So, what’s on the horizon for you? You got any exciting research that
you’re working on or any theories that you’re seeking to approve?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, well, there’s a number of things. So, maybe we’d really like to understand, still, the
mechanism of hydrogen in terms of what is it actually exactly binding to, what’s a primary target
and then this is going to induce this and so on. So that’s still being uncovered right now. There is
a brand new article that came out that could be a kind of groundbreaking article. We need some
more research to validate it, but a hydrogen, that’s kind of a complicated thing, but I’ll make it
very simple though. But this paper just came out and we have the hemoglobin that can get
degraded and form different – it forms different things during its degradation process. And
hydrogen can interact with some of these and actually form this association with some of the iron
complexes in this case. And this ends up acting maybe as a catalyst for which hydrogen can
neutralize free radicals and prevent oxidative stress.
And it can be attached to these proteins in the body that circulates all throughout the body. So, it
can be brought through the brain, through all the organs and everywhere else and could help
mediate a lot of the effects that we’re seeing with molecular hydrogen. So that’s a very interesting
study. More data needs to be done, but it’s pretty neat that we are actually seeing how hydrogen
is able to maybe bind to some of these novel proteins in the body.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah.
Tyler LeBaron:
So that’s one area. And then another interesting thing is some people seem to be much more
sensitive to the benefits of hydrogen than another. And this is just kind of anecdotally, but even
when we look at sub–analysis, some of the clinical studies, like we published a study on using –
we actually used hydrogen producing tablets and it was six months in metabolic syndrome and
we found improvements in cholesterol and glucose and liver enzymes and weight loss and
things.
But looking at the data, it almost seems that some people are going to respond better than other
people do, for example. And so, trying to hone in on what this sensitivity might be, and it’s
possible that, maybe, has something to do with our gut microbiome because we naturally
produce hydrogen gas and our intestines produce hydrogen gas naturally, but people produce
different levels. Some produce a lot, some people don’t produce any at all, in fact. And then it’s
going to depend on our diet, what type of diets we’re going to have. And so there might be
something going on here that would make one person more sensitive to another and hopefully we
can hone in on that. And then we were talking earlier about, I did update our website,
MolecularHydrogenInstitute.org. So, you know right now we’re able to offer some excellent
education about molecular hydrogen, what it is and what it isn’t. There’s so much confusion out
there.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
You’ve got some courses too, that you put together.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, I’m hoping that if you’re interested, if anyone is interested in learning
about molecular hydrogen and just trying to understand the principles and things behind it so you
can answer your own questions, these courses are really going to help because there‘s a lot of
information out there that’s not correct. And so, these courses are specifically designed to
eradicate a lot of the misinformation, get the correct information and allow you to think about
how to use molecular hydrogen the best, how to optimize and so on. So, I think people are going
to really like them.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Perfect. So, definitely head over there. MolecularHydrogenInstitute.org. Two closing questions.
One is the difference, the contraindications. Are there any for molecular hydrogen? I do recall in
the past that there was a concern with SIBO or small intestinal bowel overgrowth. Is that an issue
or are there any other contraindications that someone should be concerned about using molecular
hydrogen?
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, so we don’t know. That’s just a possibility, right? Because yeah, if you have, and there’s
different types of SIBO where you have the methanogenesis and more are just hydrogen–
producing. And so, if they’re using a lot of molecular hydrogen as an energy source, the bacteria
to produce more methane for example, than maybe if you’re feeding more of that hydrogen, then
it could be problematic. That could be true for some people, but for other people it probably
wouldn’t be true because they also have a lot of hydrogen–producing bacteria. So, there’s already
a lot of substrate in the intestines themselves. And so, adding a little bit more molecular
hydrogen may not change anything at all. In fact, maybe there’s even a negative feedback process
that’s going on that can make it better. So, if that’s a concern, I mean you could try it and if you
feel worse or something then you know maybe it’s not for you right now, so there’s that aspect.
And then in terms of contraindications, again, currently with what we have seen in the literature,
there does not appear to be any contraindications. The bigger contraindications would be if you
are using, your method of making or using molecular hydrogen is not a very good way, for
example. So sometimes I’ve seen people take just pieces of metal and put it in water and then
they’ll do electrolysis because they’ll produce a little bit of hydrogen gas in there. Yeah, you do
make some hydrogen water, but the concentration’s low and then all that electrode material can
be degraded and then leached into the water basically. And then you’re drinking that. So, that, of
course, could make you not feel very good or make you sick or cause problems. Or if you’re
overdosing on, I don’t know, drinking too much water, drinking several gallons of water a day of
hydrogen water or something, trying to get a bunch, that’s just too much water, it’s going to mess
up your electrolyte balance.
But in terms of just molecular hydrogen, still there doesn’t appear to be any contraindications.
So, it seems to be something very safe. And honestly that’s why I feel comfortable talking about
it, even recommending it. At least I certainly don’t discourage people from using molecular
hydrogen, it’s just that the safety profile of molecular hydrogen is very high. We see this from
many cell culture and animal studies and human clinical studies and it’s naturally produced in our
intestines and everything else. So, because the safety profile is so high and the potential benefits
appear to be, well, quite remarkable, then the risk–to–benefit ratio is really quite favorable. And
so, I think we can go ahead and try to enjoy the benefits of molecular hydrogen without
[crosstalk 01:08:40].
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
respect to alternative methods in administration, what about, can you review hydrogen gas
because there’s some devices out there that make hydrogen gas. I’ve been in the process of
seeking to get one made overseas and I’m seeking to get one made for you too, but like a 7%
concentration. Totally different mechanisms. Can you just maybe provide some insights as to the
comparisons of the two? Now, the gas machines are much – and you could actually use hydrogen
gas itself from a same company that would sell you oxygen gas. You can breathe that in, but that
would be, I think, a hundred percent, maybe you can combine it with oxygen.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, we do that in the laboratory and in fact, this is a concern. In most clinical studies, that’s
exactly, okay, maybe not most anymore, but in many of the clinical studies, especially the ones
that are done in the hospital settings, that’s what is done. It’s a tank of very pure hydrogen gas
that is mixed with medical grade oxygen gas. And so, it’s just very high purity. And so, the
percentages are exact. And so, when you inhale that you’re inhaling that specific percentage of
2%, 4% or whatever it is. Now when it comes to these machines that produce the molecular
hydrogen, that’s all great, assuming that the machine is not putting contaminants into the gas or
something like this, normally shouldn’t be a problem. But the issue is the volume of hydrogen
gas even going to be enough because, just because something is 2% or 1% or 7% or something,
well, 7% of 10 is 7. 7% of 10 milliliters per minute is 7 milliliters per minute, and 7 milliliters
per minute is not going to be therapeutic for you.
So, you have to make sure the volume is much higher, closer to 200 to 300 milliliters per minute,
kind of at a minimum based upon the studies. So, there’s a number of things to look at in this, but
then in terms of the benefits, say, compared to hydrogen water, more research needs to be done
on that. And in some cases, it appears that the drinking hydrogen water can be more effective.
And in fact, in certain cases it’s like a hundred times more effective just looking at different
protein expressions, for example. But in other scenarios, the inhalation might be able to work on
different pathways, different areas that the drinking cannot, and so they don’t really compete with
each other and there could be an additive or synergistic benefit from them. In the past, I would
say most of the research has done on drinking hydrogen water in clinical studies, and that’s still
probably the case, but there are more and more clinical studies being done now with the
inhalation of molecular hydrogen that are showing favorable effects.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay, that’s great. All right, well thank you for that. I think we’re going, because I had these
technical difficulties with my video camera and had to switch backup. I think we’re going to
probably end it there. But I really appreciate everything you’re doing and all the information you
shared with us. And thanks for everything that you’ve put together so far.
Tyler LeBaron:
Yeah, my pleasure. And always great to talk about hydrogen, and thank you for your time and I appreciate it.